Posts: 575
Threads: 100
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 5
SFS GM Novas: 2
As much as one hears rumor and innuendo about the viability of Heavy Weapons / Advanced Melee Envoys, I've yet to see any explicit builds on any of the boards. Purportedly it self-buffs to do damage on par with Soldier, and makes its one attack per round count. I am, however, skeptical that these claims of damage parity bear out in Org Play levels (1-12).
The template for the Vesk 'Ambassador' is hypothetically the designers' version of this character concept.
Anyone have thoughts and/or citations from other sources?
Posts: 301
Threads: 22
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 5
SFS GM Novas: 2
I'll take a look at it
Posts: 619
Threads: 285
Joined: May 2017
SFS GM Novas: 3
Since my story arc for my primary character (Diplomat envoy) now has her parents having been rescued as part of 1-99, I will attempt to build one (being one of her parents) out just to see how it works, and will progress it out through level 20 via HeroLab to see what I can come up with. Were there any other things you wanted to test other than Heavy Weapons and Advanced Melee as part of it?
Posts: 259
Threads: 8
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 5
SFS GM Novas: 2
Between Weapon Focus and Get 'Em/Improved Get E'm, you can keep your absolute attack bonus on par with a soldier's, and Clever Attack lets you make the target flat-footed pretty reliably, so accuracy is pretty good and you still provide bonuses to the rest of the party (although the soldier in your own party will still be more accurate than you are, since they get the same buffs). I don't think that unwieldy weapons are so much more damaging that they will out-perform a full attack with a more wieldy weapon, but they are pretty respectable and definitely make an impact while still buffing the party.
I'd recommend throwing the Called fusion on your weapons if you plan on being a switch-hitter, so you can start with a ranged weapon and just drop it when you want to switch to melee, and vice versa. I've been playing a Strength-based Envoy through Dead Suns, and it is really painful using a move action to actually move rather than use an improvisation, so being able to switch weapons as a swift action is very useful.
It is probably worth the soldier dip to get armor and weapon proficiencies, otherwise you're burning 3-4 feats just to be able to use the weapons and armor you need. I hate to keep beating the dead horse that is the Blitz dip, but I've found that more initiative is pretty useful on an Envoy, since you can get your bonuses into play without arguing with your allies over whether they should delay for a Get 'Em.
Posts: 575
Threads: 100
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 5
SFS GM Novas: 2
09-26-2018, 10:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2018, 10:19 AM by pgfrix.)
(09-26-2018, 10:12 AM)dbrain Wrote: it is really painful using a move action to actually move rather than use an improvisation, so being able to switch weapons as a swift action is very useful.
Action economy is a key concern, IMO. I'm just having a hard time imagining the circumstances where your std to do damage or your move to prep to do future damage is superior to doing damage through others.
Conceivably, you could be the fake tank for a soldier-less party? In a pew-pew normative game, a fake tank is all you really need?
Posts: 1,030
Threads: 299
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 4
SFS GM Novas: 4
(09-26-2018, 10:18 AM)pgfrix Wrote: (09-26-2018, 10:12 AM)dbrain Wrote: it is really painful using a move action to actually move rather than use an improvisation, so being able to switch weapons as a swift action is very useful.
Action economy is a key concern, IMO. I'm just having a hard time imagining the circumstances where your std to do damage or your move to prep to do future damage is superior to doing damage through others.
Conceivably, you could be the fake tank for a soldier-less party? In a pew-pew normative game, a fake tank is all you really need?
As Redwall proved, if you piss the enemy off enough and keep moving to block them from attacking others, a melee envoy can be an effective tank.
Posts: 259
Threads: 8
Joined: May 2017
PFS GM Stars: 5
SFS GM Novas: 2
If you want to go tank envoy, I really suggest taking a look at the Star Knight archetype. Armory added a lot of stuff to leverage Intimidate, and the Star Knight's challenge dovetails nicely with your unwieldy weapon notion (plus heavy armor without multi classing). With a little investment, you can make a target shaken (Intimidate as part of attack), off-target to everyone one but you (knight's challenge) and -2 to weapon damage (grim trophies armor upgrade) at 2nd level. When you get to level 6, you can pick up a Cruel fusion to add sickened to the stack, and a Ferocity Blazon to double the duration of all these debuffs. Conveniently, that is also when the Dragonblood theme power kicks in, adding a round to the duration when you demoralize.
You do give up a bunch of improvisations to do all this, but applying a -6 to hit, -4 to saves, skills, and damage for 2-4 rounds makes for a pretty tanks Envoy,
